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Poster: Markuseye Date: Aug 5, 2013 9:35am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Menschen am Sonntag / people on sunday


Hello archive users!

The film "Menschen am Sonntag" from Robrt Siodmak (1930) is in the Feature Films collection. Iam working on a small documentary and would like to use some parts of the film. Does anybody knows, if its free common? I talked to the film museum Amsterdam, because they published it on DVD. But they say, they dont have any rights and its free common. But im concerned, because there is no notification an Archvie.org that it is so. I would be very happy if someone could give me any further information.

Thank you very much in andvance.
Markus

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Poster: LordOfTheExacto Date: Aug 5, 2013 7:09pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Menschen am Sonntag / people on sunday

Markus, any film on the Archive is public domain (or free common, as you say), which means you can use any part of it for anything you like. Sometimes somebody will upload a film that isn't public domain, but the Archive takes it down as quickly as possible.

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Poster: Markuseye Date: Aug 6, 2013 6:01am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Menschen am Sonntag / people on sunday

LordOfTheExacto, thanks for your quick response!
I was confused because some films are branded with creative commons licenses like: Attribution 3.0 Wich is particularly open for commercial use amd "remixes".
And feature films is open for "viewing and downloading" So i wasn´t sure, if i can use it for my documentary.

Kind regards Markus

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Poster: LordOfTheExacto Date: Aug 6, 2013 9:21am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Menschen am Sonntag / people on sunday

Ah. I understand. Creative Commons is a recent thing. It's used for material that's put on the internet by its creator. It (I believe) allows free downloading and non-commercial use, but requires permission to change it or to use it commercially. A 1930 film would be older than the creative commons license. If it's on the Archive, then it's public domain, which means there is no copyright of any kind on it. You can use public domain material in any way you want.

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Poster: larus Date: Aug 6, 2013 1:58pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Menschen am Sonntag / people on sunday

Markus, there are two main problems with Internet archive uploads:
(a)the Internet Archive follows US law, and there are cases when a film can be in the public domain in the USA while still being under copyright in its country of origin
(b)some uploaders just upload films without caring about whether the films are actually public domain.

In the case of Menschen am Sontatg, the uploader originally asked whether the film was public domain, and just proceeded to upload it two days when he didn't get a response. The same user later stated his objective was to share little known film, without any regard as to their copyright status. I would be cautious about treating any of this users's uploads as undoubtedly copyright-free.

The second problem is that it is a German film. In the European Union, copyright terms last for 70 years after the death of the last author. Since Robert Siodmak died in 1973 and Curt Siodmak died in 2000, the film shouldn't be public domain in the European Union until 2070.

This being said, I am not an expert in German/European Union copyright law, and I don't know if anyone qualifies as one on this board. You might want to check with a copyright lawyer if you want to be sure.

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Poster: LordOfTheExacto Date: Aug 6, 2013 10:26pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Menschen am Sonntag / people on sunday

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the question was about a film that had already been uploaded by someone else.

Has anyone seen K-Otic lately? He might know more about German copyright law than the rest of us.

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Poster: larus Date: Aug 7, 2013 1:30am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Menschen am Sonntag / people on sunday

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the question was about a film that had already been uploaded by someone else.
No, you got it right. The film is already here.
The problem is that the uploader, Hg80, didn't know what its copyright status was. He asked about it, only waited two days for an answer, and then proceeded to upload it without any confirmation of it being public domain.
This user asked for the status of a bunch of foreign films and did not upload those for which he got a quick response stating the film was not public domain. However, he had an itch to upload something and did upload films when no response came within a couple of days.
As a result, the mere presence of this film on the archive can't be interpreted as proof it can safely used in other works.

Has anyone seen K-Otic lately? He might know more about German copyright law than the rest of us.
At least he would understand German, which would give him a head start.
On the face of it, copyrights last for life of author + 70 years throughout the European Union, and the film can't be public domain.
On the other hand, it might be an orphan work if the film copyrights were held by a company that subsequently went out of business, instead of being held by the individual authors. Now, the question would be how German copyright law deals with orphan works, and whether the rights somehow revert to the individual authors (or even the government).
An additional issue is that Markus seems to be based in the Netherlands based on his mention of the Amsterdam film museum, which means Dutch copyright law comes into play as well.

Anyway, that's enough rambling for now. This might be one case where a copyright lawyer's fees would be money well spent.